September 29,1977
THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL COURT IN THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiffversus
ROBERT LANSBERRY,
Defendant
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
By MAGISTRATE MITCHELL:
This is the case of The United States versus Robert Lansberry, Docket No.77, Case No.327. Sir, are you Mr. Lansberry?
LANSBERRY: Yes, I am.
MITCHELL: Mr. Lansberry, Agent X has executed a complaint charging you with a violation of Title 18 of the United States code, Section 871, specifically that on ,or about September 14, 1977 in Pittsburgh, the County of Allegheny, in the Western District of Pennsylvania, you did willfully and knowingly deposit in the mail a letter containing a threat to inflict bodily harm and to kill the Vice President of the United States, in violation of 18 USC Section 871. This Complaint is based on the following: on or about September 14, 1977, the Defendant deposited at the Post Office at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, a letter addressed to Walter Mondale, Vice President, The White House, Washington, DC. Said letter indicated in relevant part: "I must hunt you every day, I must kick you to death." This letter was signed by Robert Lansberry, Box #l153, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15230. An examination of hand- writing of said letter and comparison with the other samples of the Defendant's handwriting revealed that to be the same. Do you understand what the charge is?
LANSBERRY: Yes, but I didn't do it. Not in the way that is read.
MITCHELL: Mr. Lansberry, I want you to know that you have the right to be represented by counsel of your own choosing. If you are unable to afford counsel, you may request that counsel be appointed for you at the expense of the Government.
LANSBERRY: I request it sir.
MITCHELL: Okay. And furthermore, you are not required to make any statements, and any statements that you make here may be used against you in any subsequent proceedings. You also have the right to a Preliminary Hearing which will be held a week from today, October 6, at 10:00 A.M., at which time tpe Government will be called upon to demonstrate there is probable cause to believe you committed this offense. You also have the right to be released on bail. Do you understand that?
LANSBERRY: Yes, I do.
MITCHELL: This statutory violation of Title 18, Section 871 provides whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for purveyance in the mail, or delivered by any post office or by any letter carrier, any letter, writing, print, missive or document containing any threat to take the life of or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-Elect, the Vice President, or other officer next or in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or .the Vice President-Elect, shall be fined not more than $1,000 and imprisoned for not more than five years, or both. Do you understand the penalty?
LANSBERRY: Yes, I do.
MITCHELL: Now, as I said, you have the right to be represented by counsel of your own choosing. If you are unable to afford counsel, you can request that counsel be appointed for you at the expense of the Government.
LANSBERRY: I made that request, Your Honor. I cannot afford counsel.
MITCHELL: Sir, are you employed?
LANSBERRY: No, I'm not.
MITCHELL: Are you married?
LANSBERRY: Yes.
MITCHELL: Is your wife employed?
LANSBERRY: I don't know, I haven't seen her for three years.
MITCHELL: Within the last year, have you received any income from a business, profession, or other form of self-employment?
LANSBERRY: No, I have not.
MITCHELL: Do you have any cash on hand, or in the bank?
LANSBERRY: Yes, I have cash on hand.
MITCHELL: How much?
LANSBERRY: About $17.00.
MITCHELL: Any other cash available to you?
LANSBERRY: I have $2.00 at this time.
MITCHELL: Do you own any estate, stocks, bonds -
LANSBERRY: I own nothing.
MITCHELL: -- cars?
LANSBERRY: Nothing.
MITCHELL: Valuable property?
LANSBERRY: Nothing.
MITCHELL: Do you support anyone besides yourself?
LANSBERRY: No.
MITCHELL: Do you pay rent?
LANSBERRY: No.
MITCHELL: Do you owe anybody any money?
LANSBERRY: No.
MITCHELL: Mr. Lansberry, would you look at this affidavit, and if it is correct, would you sign it? Sir, do you want to raise your right hand? Do you swear the statement in the affidavit is true and correct?
LANSBERRY: Yes, it is, Your Honor.
MITCHELL: All right. I will appoint the Public Defender to represent you. Mr. Carhart, what is the Government's bond recommendation?
LANSBERRY: $50,000 cash or securities.
MITCHELL: Mr. Lansberry, the Government is recommending as a condition of your release, that you post either $50,000 in cash, or have a bondsman post a bond in that amount. The purpose of bond is to assure your appearance in Court as required. Now, this time, you can either agree to leave the bond at $50,000 and either post it or be committed in lieu of bond, or request that I set the bond.
LANSBERRY: I request that you set the bond -I have no way I can do it.
MITCHELL: Okay. Now, do you understand that if I set the bond I reserve the right to set it higher, lower, or for the same amount, depending upon what I feel is necessary to assure your appearance?
LANSBERRY: I do.
MITCHELL: Okay. And also, anything we do here will be subject to review when you have counsel?
LANSBERRY: Right.
MITCHELL: Mr. Carhart?
CARHART: Agent X
[Excerpted]
BY MAGISTRATE MITCHELL:
MITCHELL: Do you know if this man has any prior record?
AGENT X: I have no knowledge of that at this point.
MITCHELL: Do you have any knowledge of where he lives?
AGENT X: No. He was featured in the Sunday newspaper article, is that correct?
MITCHELL: Yes, that's correct, he was. -He was shown in a public park, right down the street, in a public place?
AGENT X: That's correct.
BY MAGISTRATE MITCHELL:
MITCHELL: Mr. Lansberry, do you have any questions of the officer?
LANSBERRY: Yes, I do. I want to get involved with this. The first thing is, do you understand, Your Honor, what a biofeed -
MAGISTRATE: Okay, you're not questioning me, do you have any questions of the -
LANSBERRY: Yes, I would like to ask him, since he's on the stand, are you familiar with what biofeeds are?
AGENT X: No, I'm not.
LANSBERRY: In Secret Service you do not delve into this whatsoever?
AGENT X: No, sir, we don't.
LANSBERRY: It has never been mentioned in your Secret Service career?
AGENT X: Just - I heard it here for the very first time.
LANSBERRY: The very first time. Did you - do you feel that reading that I made a statement I felt was totally out of context. Do you feel that was in context or out of context?
AGENT X: Do I feel -from reading your letter?
LANSBERRY: Right.
AGENT X: I felt that it was in the letter.
LANSBERRY: It was in the letter, but we're speaking - of someone - the letter, much of it, is fiction. And as I pointed out to you before, that one statement was a statement from a caveman who was describing things that were going on in caveman days, which were pure imaginary. Now, I feel, when you take statements out like that, they'd.still be out of context. I had no intentions of making a threat to anyone, and they were not threats in the letter. Now again, I pointed out to you upstairs that these are all statements taken out of context -
MAGISTRATE: But do you have any questions -
LANSBERRRY: Well, that's the question I was asking
MAGISTRATE: That's the question?
LANSBERRY: Right.
AGENT: I don't know how to answer that, I'm sorry.
LANSBERRY: Well, the question was -do you feel it was read in context? Was it a threat or was it an imaginary situation that I had written?
AGENT: It was a threat.
LANSBERRY: Okay. You feel it was a threat.
MAGISTRATE: Are there any questions concerning Agent XXXX testimony which you want to ask about? -
LANSBERRY: I was surprised about this statement about somebody - XXXX at Pittsburgh National Bank. I don't even remember any such incident. The only time I was in Pittsburgh National Bank -
MAGISTRATE: Don't --
LANSBERRY: Okay, will you explain the situation to me that day? You must have a report on it, what exactly happened?
AGENT X: Information was received by us from security officials at Pittsburgh National Bank that Mr. Lansberry had entered the bank, requesting money from a non-existing bank account. In the process of the investigation, heated words were exchanged between and Mr. Lansberry. In the process, the president of Pittsburgh National Bank was threatened.
LANSBERRY: Oh, that was an overage. When they sheriff-saled my property, there was $3600 left over.
MAGISTRATE: Okay, now you're not testixying. Do you want to ask Agent XXXX any questions?
LANSBERRY: Okay. I object to the security report he had then. That's all I can do. No questions. I object to it. It's not true.
AGENT X: It's probably the letter he has the interest in.
MAGISTRATE: Which letter?
AGENT X: The letter on which the threat was made.
CARHART: We would like to mark this to introduce it. This is a copy of the letter. I have nothing further.
MAGISTRATE: Okay. The Public Defender is coming over.
CARHART: Can we continue with this until he arrives?
MAGISTRATE: Mr. Lansberry, this is Mr. Whiteman of the Public Defender's office. Mr. Whteman, this is Mr. Lansberry. Mr. Whiteman, Mr. Lansberry has been charged in the Complaint signed by Agent XXXX with mailing a threatening letter to the Vice President. The Defendant qualifies for appointment of counsel. The Government has requested a $50,000 security bond. The contention of the Government has been basically that they have no family ties, they don't know where the Defendant lives, and the Defendant's admission that he was forced to write this letter through biofeed. I don't know if the Defendant wants to present any evidence at this time, you may want to talk to him.
LANSBERRY: Okay let me explain this to you - this is a manuscript -
WHITEMAN: Maybe we should go outside -
LANSBERRY: Oh, they can listen - there's nothing to -
CARHART: We'll go out side -
LANSBERRY: Well, would it be easier for us?
WHITEMAN: No, we'll stay here. Just take it from there.
LANSBERRY: What this is. These are the manuscripts.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: Now, this isn't a very involved thing. I'm one of the biofeed - have you ever heard what a 'biofeed' victim is? It's the latest in Government persecution of citizens.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: I am a person who can hear as high as the dog.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: Now, in people such as me they have started a system called the Biofeed/Biomedical Psychological and Behavioral Studies.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: Now, I'm one of these persons who got into this thing without my consent. Now, as time has gone on, it's gone on for five years, I started to write poetry. And then I started to write some prose. Now, what I thought I was doing here was writing a book, and this is part of a manuscript.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: Now, I got a letter from Walter Mondale. The Vice President mailed me a-letter.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh. You wrote to him and then he wrote to you.
LANSBERRY: That's right.
WHITEMAN: Okay.
LANSBERRY: That's right. And he asked me for my whole story.
WHITEMAN: Yeah.
LANSBERRY: You know, so I wrote him a letter.
WHITEMAN: And this is it? .
LANSBERRY: No, no, no. I wrote him a letter first.
WHITEMAN: Okay.
LANSBERRY: A simple letter saying I was a biofeed victim --
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: -- and all the things that have happened to me during these last five years.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: So then, I send a letter back, to Mondale.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: And so then, through these biofeed Communications, I hear he saves manuscripts.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: And here I am writing a book.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: And so, I was sending the manuscripts to McGraw-Hill.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: And I sent one to McMillan Company
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: -- which are publishing companies.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh.
LANSBERRY: So. then, they suggested I send, them to Mondale. Send him a couple. So I send these to Mondale. This has nothing to do with Mondale - no threat to Mondale - no anything. It's a manuscript. The man's supposed to save manuscripts. I just inadvertently sent him one. Never thinking. Because I just got a letter from him the week before.
WHITEMAN: I see.
LANSBERRY: There was no intent on anything. Of any threat or anything else.
WHITEMAN: Okay. Do you have - have they given you a copy of the letter?
LANSBERRY: Yeah, here it is. I'm talking about a --caveman at the time. This is the worst part of the story.
WHITEMAN: Okay. I must hunt you every day --
LANSBERRY: -- right.
WHITEMAN: -- I must kick you to death.
LANSBERRY: I have ruled you - this is a caveman talking - imagination.
WHITEMAN: Oh, I see.
LANSBERRY: I have ruled you for 10,000 generations. I know you all. You respond to cruelty only. I must hurt you every day. I must kick you to death.
WHITEMAN: All right. I understand.
LANSBERRY: Now, this thing is totally taken out of context.
WHITEMAN: All right. Okay. Now, let me ask you this.
LANSBERRY: Go ahead.
WHITEMAN: Do you have - what we're here on today, though, right now, is the question of how much bond they should put.
LANSBERRY: I know.
WHITEMAN: Okay. You don't have any money. All right. Now, the question is, we have to establish whether you have any ties to the community. So, do you have a permanent address here?
LANSBERRY: No. I just live - I have ties to the community, yes.
WHITEMAN: All right.
LANSBERRY: I see my mother, like three times a week.
WHITEMAN: What we need is an address. Do you live with her?
LANSBERRY: No. I stay over outside of Mt. Washington. I sleep out.
WHITEMAN: You sleep out?
LANSBERRY: Right.
WHITEMAN: Okay.
LANSBERRY: Now, my mother, I see three times a week. I'm supposed to see her tomorrow morning at 10:30.
WHITEMAN: All right. What's her address?
LANSBERRY: XXXX XXX XXXXXX is her address.
WHITEMAN: XXXX XXX XXXXXX
LANSBERRY: That was the last address she got - I had on her.
WHITEMAN: Where is that?
LANSBERRY: XXXXXX.
WHITEMAN: XXXXXX All right.
LANSBERRY: She stays with my brother.
WHITEMAN: She stays with your brother.
LANSBERRY: As far as I know - the last time I talked with her she was living there.
WHITEMAN: Any other ties? Outside of - is this the only family you have?
LANSBERRY: Well, yeah, I have my daughter who lives with my wife. Last I know, she was at - that's why I don't leave town - I've got two sons and a daughter here.
WHITEMAN: Okay.
LANSBERRY: I'm not about to leave town. .
WHITEMAN: You have two sons and a daughter here?
LANSBERRY: Right. Well, the one - two of them are in XXXXX One's at XXXXX and one's at XXXXX And I have a girl going to XXXXXXXX So I will not be leaving town.
WHITEMAN: Okay. Well, they'll want their names and their addresses and their telephone numbers, and all that.
LANSBERRY: Right.
WHITEMAN: But I don't see much hope of getting the bond lowered to something that you could make tonight. So, the thing I think we out to do, before we even go into the bond hearing, is first of all, let them take you wherever they're going to take you, probably Allegheny County Jail. And I'll come up and see you and then we'll determine whether or not we can shoot for a bond reduction. All right?
LANSBERRY: Yeah. Call my mother. She'll get you the money.
WHITEMAN: Okay. Well, what's her number?
LANSBERRY: XXXXXXXX
WHITEMAN: Okay. Is that in XXXXX
LANSBERRY: That's right.
WHITEMAN: Okay.
MAGISTRATE: Mr. Whiteman, you are retained now as the .Government has presented its request for bond. At this time, do you want the Defendant to offer any evidence?
WHITEMAN: No, sir, we would not present evidence at this time, until I have a chance to confer further with my client. And then we'll probably have a motion for a Bond Reduction Hearing.
MAGISTRATE: Okay. Well, the bond that is requested, I think is extremely high anyway. I think it should be set at $IO,ooo surety. I don't know when you want to proceed - there will be a Preliminary Hearing on the sixth at 10:00 a.m., a week from today.
WHITEMAN: All right. We will probably have a motion for reduction of bond before that.
CARHART: The Government has made a motion for a 4244.
WHITEMAN: 40 --?
GOVERNMENT: 4244.
WHITEMAN: Uh-huh. Okay.
MAGISTRATE: And when will that be presented?
GOVERMENT: Tomorrow morning. We will file it with the Court?
MAGISTRATE: What is that? That's for --
WHITEMAN: That's for you to be examined. It really doesn't bother anything too much. You have to have it done, anyway.
LANSBERRY: Examined for what?
WHITEMAN: Mental competency.
LANSBERRY: Okay. Fine.
WHITEMAN: We'd have to have it done, anyway.
LANSBERRY: Let me ask you this - what if they say there is no such thing as biofeed, which is basis of my case.
WHITEMAN: I don't think that will necessarily mean you are insane.
LANSBERRY: Do I have to go through this? This mental competency?
WHITEMAN: Yes.
LANSBERRY: Because I don't trust the Government.
(Whereupon the hearing was
concluded).
